Nonprofit Expert Episode 47 – Building Confidence in the Ask: Strategies for Fundraisers at Any Level

DonorPerfect

Welcome to Nonprofit Expert, presented by DonorPerfect.

Julia Gackenbach

Hello, and welcome to Nonprofit Expert, presented by DonorPerfect. My name is Julia Gachenbach, and I’m here with our guest, Ken Miller. Ken, welcome.

Ken Read More

DonorPerfect

Welcome to Nonprofit Expert, presented by DonorPerfect.

Julia Gackenbach

Hello, and welcome to Nonprofit Expert, presented by DonorPerfect. My name is Julia Gachenbach, and I’m here with our guest, Ken Miller. Ken, welcome.

Ken Miller

Thank you. Welcome to everyone who’s listening.

Julia Gackenbach

Great. Thank you. We’re very excited to have you here today. A little bit of information about Ken. Ken Miller, CFRE, is a nationally recognized fundraising consultant, trainer, and speaker, and president of the Denali FSP fundraising and grant consultants. With decades of experience and a deep commitment to equality and resilience, Ken has empowered nonprofits across sectors through dynamic workshops on donor engagement, digital strategy, and leadership. He is a former AFP Global board member, cofounder of Men of Color in Development, and a champion for mentorship and ethical fundraising. On today’s episode, we’re going to talk all about making the ask. Ken, we know that with the ask specifically and in fundraising in general, we require a lot of resilience and you have no shortage of resilience in you and in your story. You have an amazing journey and so I just wanna share with our listeners a little bit about how you found yourself in fundraising and the resilience that you’ve developed over the years.

Ken Miller

So how I found myself in fundraising is an interesting story. A real quick version of my story is that I was put up for adoption at birth Nineteen sixty two, I did foster homes for seven years. I was adopted and and New York State, moved up to Alaska, and that’s where I grew up. And while in Alaska, I was what you would call precocious. I was a national merit scholar and I was accepted to Harvard. I end up going to Dartmouth College for my degree. I get out of college with a degree in fraternity with a minor in drinking. And within two years, I was, homeless on the streets, literally homeless for twenty years, in and out of the penitentiary and also, homeless shelters, soup kitchens, things of that nature. In two thousand four, I picked up, what I hope to be my last felony, and I ended up doing three years in the penitentiary, came out with no skills, no skill sets, and worked in a warehouse. And then two to three years later again, I’m still clean and sober. In fact, I just celebrated twenty years of being clean and sober in September.

Julia Gackenbach

Congratulations.

Ken Miller

Thank you. Thank you. And I was notified that there was a position as a development director. Didn’t know what it did, but I needed a job. So I went down to a soup kitchen in Anchorage, Alaska called Beans Cafe and became their development director and fell in love with it. I’ve told people this. I will tell them, till my dying days that I’ve been in sales my whole life, legal and illegal, but I’ve been in sales. So I was very, very comfortable in fundraising. And sometimes we don’t wanna use the word sales, but it is a transaction between two entities for a desired result. And there is some remuneration, to the organization or the nonprofit. And so I was very, very comfortable in making the ask. And, I think that helped out tremendously, but there’s a lot of things that, became very comfortable within the fundraising field itself. So that’s how I ended up becoming a development. It was a job open. I went down there and, told them that, I was here to apply for the job. And they showed me some numbers, and I said I can do this. They went out on a limb with my background, gave me an opportunity, and I did very, very well.

Julia Gackenbach

That’s amazing. I love that about fundraising. It’s like it just kind of is ingrained in you. I feel like if you are at a fundraiser, it just blossoms at some you hear what a organization is trying to do and you say, yeah, I can do that. I I align with that. Like, it’s in you. That’s great. I’m so glad that you found yourself here and, grateful for your story and your resilience and, it’s it’s encouraging to fundraisers all over that you found yourself in that role and you’ve grown so much from that. And I know we’re going to talk a lot about strategy today, but before we get into some of that, I wanna hear about some of your experience. Can you tell about a time where maybe an ask surprised you, good or bad?

Ken Miller

I have a few.

Julia Gackenbach

Great. We love some stories.

Ken Miller

Always have stories. Because you know one of the reasons why you always love stories, especially if you look at them as stories, is because you’re dealing with individuals. You’re dealing with people. And people are so unique in their background, in their experience, or their environment that they live in, or, you know, interact in. So, yes, I have some stories. I’ll just tell one real quick. Maybe we’ll talk about a couple more later on. I was a consultant, so I was a frontline fundraiser, did major gifts, did annual campaigns, did digital online social media, all that, events, all that, for a soup kitchen called Beans Cafe, for four years. And then I went out on my own on April Fools’ Day two thousand fourteen. I started Denali FSP. So I am a consultant to nonprofits. I get a call from Juneau, Alaska, which is like a two hour flight from Anchorage. I fly down there to see the client to teach their new development personally, brand new to the field. I’m a teach them everything I know about the annual campaign, dada, dada, dada. I come in. It’s like seven thirty in the morning, and I see the executive director. And the executive director says, guess what?

Speaker 0

Soon as you hear that

Ken Miller

as a consultant, you’re always like, uh-oh. They said, guess what? They said, guess what? What? And she said, hey. We have this this donor that’s coming in, and we want you to ask for fifty thousand dollars. I’m like, I’m not that’s why I’m here to consult and to teach. And I was like, I can’t believe they’re even asking me of that because that’s not my job. I’ve been in the building a half hour. Don’t know anything about the organization. So I say to him, the first thing you always say, don’t know. I said, well, what’s their history? Oh, they donated three years ago. I said, okay. Fifty thousand. We want you to ask for another fifty thousand. I said, that’s all we have? Said, yeah. That’s it. That’s all we know. So I go into the boardroom, eight o’clock, and there’s the donor, his wife, the board chair, the board treasurer, every program officer, because this is a large organization, the individual I’m training, and the executive director. So executive director is at one end of the table. I’m at the other end of the table. Board chair is on the right. The donor and his wife are across the table at their end. And this is how the meeting goes. Hi. I just wanna welcome everybody to the meeting. We have mister and missus x y z. I don’t mention names. And and at this point, I’m gonna turn it over to our consultant from Anchorage who’s going to talk to the donor. That’s exactly how it did it. And I’m like, I can’t believe this is happening. So I say to the individual, it’s I was talking to the gentleman. I said, mister x y z, first of all, I’d like to say I we’re truly appreciative of your significant gift to this organization. And I have just one question for you. Why? Why did you give this significant and considerable gift to this organization? And then I shut up. That ain’t anything else to say. Well, I didn’t know anything.

Julia Gackenbach

Yeah. Yeah. I was worried about that. For a minute.

Ken Miller

But so, anyway, so the the end of it, it got quiet. Everybody’s looking at me like I’m supposed to talk about the organization, ask all the program people what they do, dah dah dah, go around the room, whatever. That’s not a major gift to ask. And and, also, I know how to be quiet. I mean, I’m trained in this. I train on this. It’s got quiet. I mean, what am I gonna lose? I’m just a consultant coming in. And so finally, he said, the reason that we flew up from California is because we gave a gift of fifty thousand dollars three years ago. We haven’t heard a single thing from you since. We didn’t even know if you if you we saw them check it and cap, but we hadn’t heard anything. No. Thank you. No acknowledgment. What if? And we’re listening. Everybody’s like, got their head down. And I said, you know, mister and missus Doer, the reason I’m here is because we’ve had some transition within the development sector, development team here. And, you know, I wanna apologize on behalf of your organization for not, you know, sending you a thank you or use of funds letter. But, again, I wanna thank you for your donation. But why did you donate? Got quiet again. They sat there. People are looking at me like, aren’t you supposed to say more? And he said, well, the reason is is you have a hospice program. And my brother was in the hospice program that you have, and it was the it was a very, very good program for him before he passed. And so in recognition and and thankfulness of what you provided in your hospice program, we provided fifty thousand dollars. I said again, thank you. You know, that program is growing. That program has done a lot for our community, and, obviously, it has done for you. And I’d like to know, would you be comfortable with making a donation this year for seventy five thousand? Remember, I was only supposed to ask for fifty. I upped it to seventy five, and it got quiet again. Everybody’s like, yeah. I didn’t talk about anything else. I just said, thank you. It got quiet. It was quiet for a good twenty, thirty seconds. And across the table, his wife this is an older couple. They’re Basque from the Basque region of France and Spain. And I’ll never forget, she said, just do it. Just do it. And he said, okay. He said, I’ll do it. And I’m also gonna get my my other brother to do another seventy five to match mine. So we ended up a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. The whole meeting couldn’t have been more than five minutes, eight minutes total. So that is one that was a big surprise. Yeah. But sometimes it’s even better not to have too much information because you talk yourself out of the donation, or you don’t give any space for the individual to think both emotionally and rationally. Once I got their why, which is the emotion I can teach this, and we’ll talk about this a little bit. Once I got to their why, they they are ready because it made those individuals feel good to make that donation in memory of their brother who who they lost, but we had helped out tremendously in those last few months. So that’s my story. I was sticking to it.

Julia Gackenbach

That is so exciting. I feel like being in that room, I would have been sweating and crying and celebrating. That is a unique experience for sure and a surprising one that you’re right. I love the idea of asking the why and, you know, skip to the end of the podcast. Maybe that is the most important question. We’re this pod this podcast is all about the ask. And is is that the ask? What would you say?

Ken Miller

There’s more to the ask. The I have a whole sequence that I teach when I’m teaching major get work. There’s companies that teach it over, you know, over months. I I keep it simple, but the why to me is the most important question that you can ask. People give please understand this, and I’m talking to the audience. People give emotionally. The number one reason that people give is because it makes them feel good to write the check or to make their online donation. It makes me feel good. And so what can I do to get them feeling good because it’s an emotion? Feeling good is emotion. So I need to get them into an emotional reason. So what we do is we buy emotionally, and then we justify the purchase rationally. That’s what we do. When we buy a car, when we buy, you know, anything that’s tangible, we always, on the back end, rationalize or justify intellectually. But the ask and the emotion that comes from the, what I call, the actualization of the gift is emotional.

Julia Gackenbach

I have never thought about it that way. I’ve never thought about you buy emotionally and then you rationalize after the fact.

Ken Miller

So why do they why do you go for a test drive?

Julia Gackenbach

To see if I like the car.

Ken Miller

Because it gauges yeah. But it engages the senses. They have a spray. They call it new car spray smell, and they literally they will put that in the car. This is believe me when I tell you this. I learned this in sales in nineteen eighty four. When I was working for Kodak, I learned this. K? So how do we get people to the emotional part? You know? And it’s not that we’re playing tricks on it. There’s I teach a whole class on behavioral economics. Okay? And how how you can use heuristics and and behavioral economics to, modify or put people nudge people in a certain direction. Okay? There’s a thing called anchoring. There’s a thing called primacy. There’s a thing called recency. I can teach all that. But the key one for this conversation for major Git work is allowing people to have that emotional feeling again. And this isn’t a key. I don’t know when

Speaker 0

we’re gonna get to the park because I I I

Ken Miller

could go through this thing.

Julia Gackenbach

Do it. Let’s do it. Yeah.

Ken Miller

Alright. So a major gift ask. I’m talking about the ask part. So first is the prep to get to the ask. K? And the prep is the first thing I wanna do, if I come into a new company and I have a list of major donors or if I have a what we call portfolio of individuals that I am supposed to, be the major gift officer for. First thing I’m gonna do is look at my list, and, usually, I’m going to look at the largest gift and work my way down because I want the year that most bank for because I have to start priming it. And the first thing I’m gonna do is establish either a meeting and or online or in person just to thank them. That’s the only thing I wanna do is thank them. And then, also, I wanna give them an understanding of what we call use of funds, What your gift accomplished. Now these are people who passed over past major gift donors, right, to our organization. That’s number one. Then I’ll do that one or two meetings. There’s a timeline depending on the the complexity of maybe the past gift and or how long ago it’s been since the last gift. But then what I’m gonna do is set up the meeting for the ask. And, literally, by the time you get to that meeting, they already know you’re gonna make an ask. Believe it. They know that. You thanked them. You thanked them. Because this is another key. Every single meeting, I talk about the future. This is so important. And a lot of care if it’s an annual campaign. Every letter, every email that’s going out annual campaign, let alone major gift card. I’m talking about the future. Why do you talk about the future, Ken? Because people cannot donate to the past. They can’t. They can’t even donate to the present. It just went by. All they can do is support the future. So I’m painting a picture of, man, if I gave them ten thousand dollars or a hundred or ten million, they could do this? Because they told me this year, you know, they have a couple super projects that they’re working on or programs. So I always talk about the future. Okay. In the meeting, it goes like this. You you go to the meeting. You do your introductions. First thing I’m always gonna do is thank you. I I teach this all the time. I start with a thank. I end with a thank or thank you. Okay? So I wanna thank you. I use the word considerable or significant. I would love to thank you for your significant support, mister and missus Johnson. And then we get into you know, I just wanna touch back. I remember you were saying something to the effect that the reason why you support us at this level was because, we had sent, your your two children to the college, k, to the university, and they had a wonderful experience of doing it. How are they doing? Good. Now I’m getting back into the emotion of why they gave the last gift or gifts. K? Now they’re back. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You guys gave them a good education. Now they’re doing great. You know, the daughter has kids, you know, and and she’s doing great in her career. Son’s doing great. Then once they’ve gotten back now into the emotional, I go directly into the future. Well, this year, you know, we’re hoping to do two more endowments. You know, one in the school of biology and one in the school of athletics. It’s the one out of style. And I go always paint a picture of the future. And then once they have asked any question because now we’re into somewhat into the intellectual. Because remember, they gotta rationalize why they feel good to give this donate. Oh, if I give ten million, I can help build that endowment for that new professorship or that new department. K? And then, you know, then after they’ve maybe asked any questions, any concerns, or any other thoughts, or any more information they need, then I make the ask. And the ask is very simple. You know, would you be open to supporting us at a level of ten million dollars this year? Then we shut up. And, usually, I’m looking at if there’s a couple, I’m looking at the wife. Because eighty, ninety percent of the time, she’s making the decision. She’s making the decision. K? And he will do what I do it with my wife. That what you want? Okay. Okay. I’m gonna get the credit card. K. And then the the and there’s only three answers. Yes. No. Not now. Two of them are good. Not now is a pledge to me. Because I you know, my thing then is to say, well, when is a comfortable time? It would be better toward the end of the year. Are there any tax verifications? Do you have any concerns on channels or vehicles to make the gift? Dot dot dot. And then I always end with thank you. And it can be a little more technical things about how we’re gonna actualize the gift, if it stops or, you know, it’s whatever. It gets deferred, not deferred.

Julia Gackenbach

That’s incredibly practical. I feel I feel like you just walked me through an ask meeting. That that copy and paste, copy and paste, copy and paste. I could do that over and over.

Ken Miller

When I teach it, I say the two most are why and future. You can even forget a thank you. You can go directly into, you know, oh, I was looking at my records and the reason why or the reason you’ve supported us in the past was x y z. K. And you forgot to thank you. Okay. Good. But it’s real difficult. See, we’re I think some individuals make problems or they think is they gotta go right into the intellectual. Okay. Hey. The reason I brought us together is we have this wing that we’re trying to build, or we have this endowment, or we have this program, or we have this professorship that we’re trying to fund. And can you give us ten million? Get them back into the why. And then thank them. Please, at least thank them. And even if they say, no, I always thank thank you for your time. Thank you for taking and your past support of this wonderful organization that I’m here representing. K? The difficulty also is this. Many major gift officers are many times, especially with smaller houses, is that you know this, but the person making the ask is the executive director or the board chair or board person, and they don’t know. And it’s your job as a development director or major gift officers to train them on here’s how we’re going to do it, whether you take it from me or from Veritas or whoever is teaching you. Know the system. And once you’ve done it a few times, it’s it’s I haven’t made a major gift to ask them a while because I’m I’m a I’m a consultant. But I’ve taught a lot of people, and I have made a lot and have brought in some money.

Julia Gackenbach

What you’re saying about the why is so interesting, and you you talked about starting with a thank you. But even if it’s a first time, relationship with a new giver, if you do skip the thank you because you they haven’t given yet, starting with the why, Why are you here today? Why did were you interested in sitting down with us? Why is this organization on your radar? You can still ask that why question even if they haven’t given a gift yet. Yet.

Ken Miller

But you please understand that the thank you is emotional. You start with emotion. A thank you is an acknowledgment of you as an entity, as a person. I’m acknowledging you and saying to you, I am appreciative of your action, but more importantly of you as a person. That’s a lot of time we, you know, we go into this transaction. I’m not thanking you for the gift. I’m thanking you for being who you are, a person that’s willing to support something that you believe in in our community. That’s what I’m really thinking.

Julia Gackenbach

That’s a great distinction because there is yeah. Like, you’re you’re showing the difference between a transactional thank you and an emotional thank you, and I’ve never thought about it like that. That’s really powerful.

Ken Miller

Yeah. Let me let let me say the most important thing that I may say today, and it’s this. I provide individuals, couples, and families the opportunity to feel good. That’s what I do when I make the ask. I provide an opportunity to feel good about something that I believe in. I learned that probably about a week or two weeks. I don’t know how I learned it. I don’t know if it came through osmosis. I read it somewhere. So I but once I got that, fundraising for me was a piece of cake. I had no problem with doing, annual appeals. I had no problem doing major gift work. And I got if you can say I got fortunate because my first three asked yeah. First three asked. Two of them gave me more than I asked for, and then the other one gave me what I asked for. I came in and my first ask was for ten thousand. I didn’t know anything about doing it. One weekend to working for beans, my executive director, go talk to this gentleman who was the past president of ConocoPhillips, Alaska. And I sit down. I’m just excited. And he said, I don’t know what you just said or talked about, but you’re so excited. I’ll give you fourteen because I can see you’re just so excited about the organization. I and I like Bean’s Cafe. So you ask for ten, I’ll give you fourteen. I’m a write a check right now. And he wrote literally wrote a check. I thought it was gonna be that easy. I was thought I’d just walk walk up and down the street and just stop people and say, hey. Support these caffeine. Feeding hungry, adults and children in Anchorage. It’s not like that.

Julia Gackenbach

I love it. Yeah. That’s great. And that goes back to the emotional part of things. He saw that emotion in you, and it was contagious. Yeah. I I mentioned, as a fundraiser, the ask is was always kind of intimidating to me, but the way you’re breaking it down, you’ve broken down some walls by by giving them an opportunity to say why. And the the idea of I’m giving you an opportunity to be part of something, so the rejection isn’t as scary because they’re not rejecting you. They’re just saying, no. I don’t wanna be part of that.

Ken Miller

What I mean, there’s yeah. You could say it like that. They’re saying no. See, the part you can’t read a person’s mind. You don’t know what’s in their mind. They could be going through a a family issue. They could be going through a marriage issue. They could be going through a financial issue. You don’t know that. Okay? Or they’re mad because they never got a thank you. K? And you don’t know that. Or they’re upset because there’s a new major gift officer and they work with the same person for six years in the past. And they’re really trying to see if they can trust you, if if you’re going to bring the same to the table that my former major gift offer, MGO, did. K. That’s major gift officer. So we don’t know that, but I gave you the opportunity to feel good. And if if you don’t want to embrace that at this point, I so respect that because I’m gonna thank you for your past support. What a great you know what? Somebody asked me I’ve been I’ve been working in the fundraising. It’s fifteen years ago. I was working in fundraising field about a month, and somebody said, what do you do for a living? I said, I thank people for a living. That’s what I do. I get paid well to thank people for a living. I love that. That’s what I do.

Julia Gackenbach

That is a dream job. I mean, anybody listening to this podcast who’s thinking about how to define their job and able to take on, I get to thank people for a living. That’s amazing. What is so that is obviously one side of this, and I think that is the pretty side, the I get to thank people for a living. What what would you say to a fundraiser who maybe is afraid of being too pushy or, I don’t know. Maybe people aren’t going to wanna meet with me because they know I’m gonna ask them, and I don’t want that reputation. What would you say to someone who has that fear?

Ken Miller

So first of all, I

Ken Miller

I would talk to my what is fear. I’d I’d break it down. What is fear? And I speak on this, so I’m very, very, cognizant of what fear is. Fear is a future anticipation of pain. That’s all it is. The future anticipation or expectation of pain. And then you have to identify what is the pain of that individual saying no. Because what we do is we go into these meetings with two fears, fear of the no and fear of competency or lack of competency. Okay? We’re not good enough to be doing this job. I know many major gift officers that make over a quarter of a million dollars a year. K? It’s well paying because to be good at it, to be effective at it, you have to learn how to do it well and to understand it’s not about you. The difficulty is that we internalize it. And literally, if someone says no, it’s shame based, k, versus guilt. Guilt says I did. Shame says I am. Okay? So when we go in there and we get a no, instead of saying I did something, maybe it wasn’t the best ass, maybe I’m not competent, but that’s an action step as opposed to I am not competent. That’s shame based. And so how do we turn away from that? Number one, and a very good development director, CDO, a vice provost of advancement will, lot of time, will send you out on some we know you and get a win. Okay? Like, when my executive director said to me, he knew the guy was gonna donate. I mean, he’s known the guy for years, and he used to work with him, okay, at ConocoPhillips. And then he became the executive director of Bean’s Cafe. And so he sort of knew, and and so I got this win from the beginning. If I’d gotten, let’s say, three nos, it would have been probably difficult because I would have questioned my competency. K? I am not good as a fundraiser. So get some wins underneath you, but go in there. It’s not about you. It literally is about this transaction. So that’s what I that that’s what I would, you know, I would recommend. But look at the fear. Look at the pain. Try to understand it in relationship to you. They’re not saying no to you. They’re saying no to this engagement, this transaction. And and ninety nine percent of the time, it’s not about you. It is

Julia Gackenbach

And it’s hard because like you said with your fourteen thousand dollar gift, it is so personal. You were so excited about the mission. And so I think fundraisers get so connected to the mission that we also get so connected to the giving. So kind of uncoupling the personalization of that is an interesting habit, maybe is the best way to say that.

Ken Miller

Whether you get the gift or not, the organization should remain viable. It should not remain now I’ve seen organizations go under. Literally go under because they lost a grant. I’ve seen programs, multiple per it’s happening right now as we speak. But that’s different. That is, you know, that’s, restricted funding toward a program project or the organization where they put too many of their eggs into one basket in the grant world. But an organization in any way, shape, or form should not be relying on one donation or one donor. Because, again, donors move on to other organizations. Donors pass away. Donors have family, marital, financial problems. And if you’re relying on one individual or two individuals to keep the lights on, you have a major problem. Major problem. You know? Your funnel is too small. Your pyramid doesn’t have enough on the bottom to move people up, or you’re doing a very, very poor job of retention and moves management.

Julia Gackenbach

How would you encourage someone who might find themselves in that position? What can they do to widen their audience? Yeah.

Ken Miller

You you’d have to do, wealth screening. First of all, first thing I would do is go into the organization and do wealth screening of my present donors, and then you have to start looking at wealth screening for what we call prospects. And so when whenever whenever I do, direct mail acquisition to acquire new donors, how I buy and purchase my list, because I’m a list purchaser. I don’t borrow or exchange. And this is what I teach. I’ve worked with a hundred and forty clients, so please let let you know that I know what I’m talking about here. What I would do is I always screen it by wealth. So what I’m looking for is individuals, families, and couples that have given at least five hundred dollars single gift within a geographic physical area because most individuals donate locally.

Julia Gackenbach

Yeah. That’s helpful advice for sure. Okay. I have one last question for you before we wrap up. If you were to speak to Ken, who started up Beans Cafe, before you locked in that fourteen thousand dollar gift. If you could give that, Ken, one point of advice, what would it be?

Ken Miller

You mean when I started, one piece of advice?

Julia Gackenbach

Now that now that you’ve been through many years of major gift fundraising, what’s a good piece of advice for someone just starting out or

Ken Miller

Just about major gifts? Just about major gifts?

Julia Gackenbach

Let’s do one major gifts and one general fundraising.

Ken Miller

The one piece of advice that I I I would give myself today, because I didn’t do this originally, is I would have started with my largest donor and worked my way down. I did I just literally started with, a, I had eight hundred donors that given at least five hundred dollars single gift. And I was I was that’s what I would would have done. I would have sorted them by the size of the gift and then work my way down. Right? That’s that that would be the first one.

Julia Gackenbach

That’s helpful and and practical as well. Is there another one that you’d like to share?

Ken Miller

Oh, yeah. Definitely. Yes. I would have became a consultant sooner. Why, Ken? Because I did four years as a front line because I I help more people. I help more people, and I love helping. I love my clients. I help I love the individuals I teach. I love the because I I I can touch more people. I believe in what nonprofits do. I believe in philanthropy. I understand it. Even though there are people who are really fighting us right now. K? But I believe in it, and I understand it. I was a recipient of nonprofits for years. I was in soup kitchens. I was in shelters. Those are all nonprofits. And without those, I probably wouldn’t be here today. Without someone giving me a meal, I hand out. Without someone providing a mat that I can lay my head in safety, I wouldn’t probably be here. Okay? Or I’d be on a mat somewhere else without being able to get out for a long time. So I’m so thankful. I have seen so many different types of nonprofits and understand what we do for our environment, for arts and culture, for, education, for social services, for religion, you know, and spiritual that I am just the biggest advocate. And but I for me to help, I need to teach more. And that’s why I come on podcast like this, and I’m so thankful to you, Julie. I really am. That I can share and if I leave anything, it’s not the technical. It’s that I believe in what we do as honorable as fundraisers, and I believe in your competency as a fundraiser. Those who are listening, truly. And if you have any questions about anything I’ve spoken about for free, just email me, and you have my email. Call me. I only have one phone number I’ve had for fifteen. I’m not afraid of anything or anybody, literally. Well, my wife well, I’m not afraid of anything, but I’m not. I’m just not. So I just have one phone number. I pick up my phone. I answer it. I don’t and I I do my email. So that’s what I’d like to say. I went a little longer than I thought, but I just get so excited.

Julia Gackenbach

I love that, Ken. And it’s so clear your passion and how helpful you are to fundraisers. Thank you for being so accessible. It’s really amazing that you’ve offered this to our listeners, and, I am hopeful that they will leave this podcast and just know how to get started and feel encouraged. You’re such an encouragement, and your joy is very clear. So thank you so much for sharing, and thank you for being here. I’ve really enjoyed speaking with you and look forward to speaking again soon.

Ken Miller

Thank you.

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