Nonprofit Expert Episode 18 – Revealing Donor Potential

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Welcome to Nonprofit Expert presented by DonorPerfect.

Julia Gackenbach Host 00:13

Hello, welcome to Nonprofit Expert. My name is Julia Gachenbach and I’m so excited for today’s interview with Clay Buck Clay. Thank you so Read More

DonorPerfect Ad 00:03

Welcome to Nonprofit Expert presented by DonorPerfect.

Julia Gackenbach Host 00:13

Hello, welcome to Nonprofit Expert. My name is Julia Gachenbach and I’m so excited for today’s interview with Clay Buck Clay. Thank you so much for being here.

Clay Buck Guest 00:23

Thank you, I’m happy to be here.

Julia Gackenbach Host 00:25

Yes, I’m so excited to chat with you. I know we’ve been together a few times in person, but we haven’t really been able to sit down and dig into the things that you are really passionate about and really well versed on. So I’m so excited to learn from you today, and I’m excited for our listeners to learn from you as well. So this will be a great conversation. I’m looking forward to it.

Clay Buck Guest 00:48

Thank you, I appreciate that. I’m just always interested in the conversation. If we all get something out of it, so much the better.

Julia Gackenbach Host 00:53

Agreed, and I’m going to be taking a lot of mental notes, I’m sure, and I can’t wait to hear all the nuggets of wisdom you have for us. So first, why don’t you introduce yourself, give us a little information on you and what your role is in the nonprofit sector?

Clay Buck Guest 01:08

As you said, I’m Clay Buck. I’m the founder and principal for a consulting firm based in Las Vegas, nevada, tcb Fundraising. I focus on individual giving, primarily at the low and the mid range of the pyramid, which are terrible, terrible words and we wish we had better ones for them, but we know what we mean when we use those kinds of terms. So, which means I do a whole lot of individual giving, dealing with data process systems, copywriting, appeals, like all of the things that go into working in with individual giving Again that low in the mid range. I’ve been in the sector now just over 30 years, which is terrifying. It started as a fundraiser at nonprofit. I spent some time on the consulting side and then launched my firm three weeks before lockdown happened right during the pandemic, so you know, great time to start a business, but I’m happy to be doing it. I’ve been fortunate to work with some really tremendous clients and partners and do some really good work, as we, you know, sort of tackle the challenges of today and fundraising.

Julia Gackenbach Host 02:12

Yeah, that’s great, I’m sure, with individual fundraising. I was a development director before I worked with Donor Perfect and individual fundraising is so funny because it sounds like oh okay, I do this one thing, I do individual fundraising, but that is not one thing at all.

02:29

There’s a million things that goes into that, even down to events, which is a ton of people, but still a group of individuals that you work with to fundraise. So I’m sure that you help fundraisers all over with their many, many, many hats. I’m sure that you help fundraisers all over with their many, many, many hats and I’m sure they are incredibly grateful to be able to rely on you for all things. Individual fundraising.

Clay Buck Guest 02:51

I hope so, I hope so.

Julia Gackenbach Host 02:53

Well, one of the things like we said, there’s so many things that go into individual fundraising, but one of the things that I really want to chat with you about today is data and the importance of clean and equitable data. So I, as I mentioned, I was a fundraiser. We had a donor database with so much information in it. I inherited all that information. I didn’t know what was true, real, fake, made up, old, new, anything. So I just want to really dig into the best way to keep your data equitable and keep your information clean. So let’s chat about that a little bit and let’s start with just very basic what is the connection between that good data and managing that good data and fundraising results? Why do those two things matter?

Clay Buck Guest 03:50

And I think to preface that, I do think we have to look at where we are in the world today.

03:57

Seth Godin and others say that we are living and working in a connection economy, and what they mean by that is is that in, in, in, looking at, in looking at the world through an economic perspective, we’ve had the economy of things, of stuff, of amassing right money, of amassing things and so forth.

04:14

Today, um, connection, who you know, and how you connect with them, and how you leverage those connections and how genuine those connections are is far more valuable than any asset, any other traditional technology, et cetera and I’m not being previous economies and I am not an economist, but and I think we can all agree that we feel that and certainly we know this we’re getting all the emails, all the social media, all the everything that comes at us, which means that if indeed we are living and working in a connection economy, which we are then data is the fuel of that, because how do we connect with somebody?

04:56

It’s what we know about them and how we can connect them. So, everything from do we have the right email address, the right address, the right mail address, to names, just simply capturing a donor’s name and getting that right is of critical importance because we are all much, much more sensitive to the genuine connection now. And there’s something like I want to say there was a recent study like 149% of donors said they would potentially give more for a personalized experience in giving with the charities, right? So just knowing names and keeping that clean which to finally answer the question.

Julia Gackenbach Host 05:37

No, I love that. Actually, let’s talk about the importance of that real quick. So I think you and I are perfect examples here. We do not. You do not go by your legal first name. My name is Julia and my grandmother’s name was Julie. So if anyone calls me Julie, I’m like that is not my name. I am immediately turned off. If someone calls me Julie, and I’m sure for you, if someone is not calling you Clay, you know that that’s not a personal connection, because people who know you know you go by Clay. So there is this importance of just the name. Just knowing the name shows that individual connection

Clay Buck Guest 06:16

100%, 100%, and I tell the story all the time, right? So when I fill out, when I make a gift online, depending on how the form is structured, I prefer to have my name listed as T Clay Buck. Why? Because Clay Buck is eight syllables, it’s two words, it’s very just, mono, right, like the T just adds a little thing. I don’t know, I’ve been using it for years anyway, but when I fill out a form, I’ll use either T clay or clay, and I’m fine. However, you want to address that when I fill out a credit card form, when I make the gift, I have to use Thomas, which is my full first name. Inevitably, constantly, I get Dear Thomas. Nope, that’s not what I said right, yeah, and that’s that’s.

Clay Buck Guest 07:07

You know. That’s me in in a bit of an unusual example, but we have to admit that we are also working in a global economy and names. Now we can’t just rely on the, the with all due respect, uh, to to the mikes and the thieves and the janes and the mary, who are all wonderful people and great names. Right, it’s not quite as simple as it was and we’re not using honor records like we used to, and, in fact, younger and newer generations don’t want to. We don’t want to be mr and mrs, so-so right, but we also have older generations who do. The point is giving the donor the choice and allowing that data, and then the way we capture data, the way we process data and the way we use data to be what the donor has told us they want. Data is the stories that donors are telling us. We talk so much about telling stories to donors. We don’t talk enough about what the stories they’re telling us and they’re telling us their stories in the data they’re leaving behind.

Julia Gackenbach Host 08:11

I love that. I think that’s so important because sometimes, as a fundraiser like I was a fundraiser because I love people and I loved the mission, not because I was great at data I didn’t know much about data. I didn’t know much about data, I didn’t they told me, hey, here’s your donor database. And I said my donor, what you know. But you’re right, you know those data points are stories from our donors. I love that. That’s such a great frame for what we know about our donors has to be certain data points whether it’s their name, whether it’s what time of year they give, whether it’s if they had a tribute and they gave through a tribute. That’s so much information that you can find from your donors.

Clay Buck Guest 08:58

All of that, which means so to your point, I think many of us will say I mean, I was the same way, right? I walked into the first fundraising job and was told okay, if you have a question about what’s in the database, go to the file cabinet, because that’s where the master did.

Julia Gackenbach Host 09:15

So I’ve been around for a bit. I’ve been around for a while, right.

Clay Buck Guest 09:19

And literally I mean literally we had huge file cabinets with all of the letters and the three by five cards and the notes and all of that. Um, yeah, so, like all of this, data and technology has evolved within my career lifetime, and I’m not that old, I mean, I’ve got another 15 years before retirement, so I’m not that old, right? So all of this technology growth has happened while we’re working. A lot of us didn’t. A lot of us didn’t intend to be fundraisers, let alone data people. The time, though, is now the time has passed, so, therefore, the time is absolutely now that we have to start organizationally valuing data as an asset, especially with the growth of AI, because it’s just going to get even harder. We have to start looking at data as a valuable asset that needs to be managed and taken care of like any other asset that we have.

10:11

You wouldn’t let I mean as much as your budget and everything will allow. You don’t let your buildings crumble, right? You keep your buildings clean. You keep your buildings up to date, right? You do what you can’t. The same thing is true with data. If we don’t nurture it and take care of it and treat it as a valuable asset, it’s going to age, it’s going to be used badly, it’s going to cost money down the line. There is a direct let me. Let me put it this way if you take I don’t know, make up a number um five thousand in your database, all of whom are donors at some level over X period of years, right, you take those 5,000 records and look at their total giving and multiply 5,000 times that average and you get what that 5,000 donors is worth.

10:59

We can expect to lose the quality of about six to eight percent of our records every year. People move, people change emails, all of the things right. Well, if you’re losing eight percent of the quality of donor records, that’s eight percent of those dollars you can’t renewing. There is a direct monetary ROI value in a data set which is a long way of saying right, there is value in a data set which is a long way of saying right, there is value in the data. No longer can we say our data is terrible, let’s go find new donors. Your best donors are already in your database. If you don’t know how they want to be named or what their address is, we’re actually losing money by not taking care of the data in front of us.

Julia Gackenbach Host 11:41

Yeah, and that answers that question. You know what is that link between good data and fundraising? Not only is it the importance of the relationship and the story the donors are telling us, but it is financial. You need good data, even down to wasting a stamp sending it to the wrong address. That is a financial hit to your organization. Over the course of multiple years that’s a larger financial hit, you know.

Clay Buck Guest 12:09

Absolutely it is, and I mean, I’m a direct mail guy, that’s where I came into the business from but the same thing is true in digital. Oh, you know, our bounce rate is 4%. Yikes, like that’s 4% of your emails that aren’t getting the message that you’re sending to them. So let’s, let’s worry less about that new donor down the street that might give to us and work on how do we connect with the 4% that are bouncing, or the 3% that are getting returned to us in direct mail, and clean the data that we have and contact those donors and have already said yes, I like you, here’s my money, right, right yeah, and that’s that’s the point.

Julia Gackenbach Host 12:51

Right, there is those people already said hey, I’m in. They took part in an event they gave, they volunteered, they did something for you to get their email address. Whether it’s wrong or not, they provided something to give you that information. So that’s already a tick of the box that says this person is interested. You don’t want to waste that because your data is wrong.

Clay Buck Guest 13:15

Precisely, Precisely. And then the question comes. Well, you know, donors don’t tell us when they move, when they change information, whatever, and and in in all due love and respect, having been the, the, the guy, the one person shop trying to do all the things right, with all of all of that love wrapped around every fundraiser in the world that has to wear multiple hats, I also say yeah, but what did you do to make yourself be the organization? Because, like, when I change email addresses, you better, you better believe Amazon knows right, when I change email addresses, there’s several, there’s different organizations that we notify. How do you become notified? That’s the question. How do you become that organization that is in the donor’s mind, in your community’s mind, is saying I want to be sure that Acme Charities knows how to reach me.

Julia Gackenbach Host 14:06

Wow, I think that you just signed yourself up for another podcast interview where we answer that question. That is a whole thing. Wow, I love that concept, though, and that is something that fundraisers do need to wrestle with. Ok, the data is going to change. That’s inevitable. How do we make sure we’re part of the conversation?

Clay Buck Guest 14:27

Right, precisely. I think we have to accept that, and let me say this too Both of my degrees are in theater. There is nothing in me that is data. I am not a data person. I just learned how to do it because I was wearing multiple hats and discovered early on the value of it in exactly this. So these are not new things. We’ve been talking about this for a lot of years. They’re just more prevalent now, especially when we look at the current trends, when we see fewer households giving to charities, when we see donor retention rates dropping right. As simple as get the names right. Let’s get the names right, right? I mean, dale Carnegie said it the sweetest sound in any language to any person is the sound of that person’s own name. Right? So let’s get the names right. Value what donors are sharing with us us and then worry about the communication stream Right and how it comes. Let’s get the basics down first.

Julia Gackenbach Host 15:26

Right, and for people like you and I, the worst sound is the wrong name, right, exactly, and that’s you know. It’s so funny. I never really noticed that before, even though I am. I’m a person who has a name that can be shortened or whatever, but now I just see the effect that it has on me and the importance of the name. I love that concept.

15:50

Okay, so we’ve talked a lot about the connection between fundraising and data and the importance of said connection. Something else that you are really involved in that, I think, the nonprofit world. There are certain pockets that are not involved in it at all and certain pockets that are growing in it is the DEI space. So diversity, equity and inclusion this is a really important thread as we figure out how to serve people and how our organizations are not only being good to our staff and our volunteers, but also the people who are benefiting from our mission. So how does that play into data? How do we still honor diversity, equity and inclusion in data? It seems like data is such like womp, womp, boring numbers. I don’t want to look at a spreadsheet, but does DEI infuse into?

Clay Buck Guest 16:54

data at all. Let’s again take the perspective that what a donor or constituent and I keep saying donor, but I also mean the people that sign up for our newsletters, right? People on our marketing list, all of those things right, what they tell us and how we use it is precisely how we approach inclusion and equity. And there’s you know, there’s a whole lot of very, very important and very good discussions on the, the philanthropic sector. And how do we bring forward more social justice, how do we center this in in equity and and make generosity? We say philanthropy and we tend to think, right, wealthy, right. How do we make the work of generosity more inclusive, more accessible, more equitable to everyone involved? And some, the data honestly represents some very tactical elements that we can do to make bold statements that we’re listening, we hear you, we see you when donors give, right, there’s all kinds of reasons why donors give, but those donors that give because they do care, because they’ve been brought into the mission, they’re expressing a level of agency, they’re expressing a desire for belonging, they’re expressing an expression of identity. This is who I am right. I am the kind of person who believes that this mission should carry forward. How we respect that in the data represents back that identity that they bring forward. So whether it’s simple, I mean as simple as how we collect the names, use the names the way they’re provided. If I give you clay on a form, then address me as clay. Right? I hear this over and over and over and over and over again, even in 2024, right?

18:56

In general, on average, in households, women make the majority of philanthropic decisions and inevitably it listed as Mr and Mrs Jack Brack right. When we default to and some of our systems are still built on, the male is the head of household. When we default to that kind, we erase women as part of the philanthropic decision. How are we, how do our systems approach same-sex households? Right? Are we honoring and recognizing that, yes, two boys can live together and make philanthropic decisions together and two women can? Um, how are we addressing and dealing with um and approaching and recognizing names that don’t sound familiar to traditional western white years? To be honest, right? Non-colonial names, names that are spelled differently and sound differently than we? Right? We, the dominant white male culture, may be used to? And are we making any decisions along the line? Because data systems, with all due respect to everybody that builds them.

20:12

Data systems are inherently biased. They are it’s unfortunate, it’s true, but they are built on bias and we continue to carry bias for it. A lot of the large language modeling that we’re seeing, the advent of AI, is built on biased data. So how do we tackle bias in the way that we approach it? And one way is to be very, very intentional and very confident in the choices that we’re giving to donors, into capturing and using names the way they are provided to us, to not making decisions for and to giving donors the choice right. So you make a gift to my organization One of the great ways that I can do it is right. I send you the thank you letter please, please, let’s all be sending thank you letters and the receipt, and then, about a month after your gift, I come to you. Come to you and say, hey, this is how we have your name listed is this how you want to be listed and when you receive.

21:08

When you receive information from us, we’ll be saying, dear julie, and you’re like no, nope, nope, nope, nope, that’s not right I’m subscribed.

21:14

Yeah, I’m surprised but well, but I’m giving you the opportunity to say this is what we have. Is this correct? Right, let’s give our constituents more control over how they want to be reflected in our communications and the work that we’re doing with them. Right, and honor those simple things Getting names right, giving people the choice of honor records Do you want to be Mr and Mrs, or do you want to be Jeff and Dianers, or do you want to be jeff and diane? Right, putting all of those choices and then honoring them.

Julia Gackenbach Host 21:45

And that goes back to valuing data as an asset well, and I think this is an interesting thread because, as you mentioned, there’s a lot of bias and we live in a white dominated we do world. There’s a level of humility that you’re talking about right now.

Clay Buck Guest 22:03

This level- of say I would say vulnerability, but yeah, okay, yeah vulnerability.

Julia Gackenbach Host 22:09

That’s a great point. There’s got to be the space for conversations like these to be able to say oh, I should double check that how I’m pronouncing this name is correct. I should double check that the pronouns here are correct. There’s a need for vulnerability, as you mentioned, and I think sometimes it’s easy to speed past that. But in order to have inclusive and equitable data, there has to be these vulnerable conversations, because you got to know for sure, you know.

Clay Buck Guest 22:46

And we have to have the tough conversations internally. And again, you know, I will fully acknowledge I am a white cisgendered male, I sit in a certain amount of privilege and I am still learning and have to learn. We also have to have uncomfortable, sometimes conversations internally that like it’s not just go out and get more donors we haven’t made the donors that we do have feel included, like they belong, like they’re part of it, like the community that we do have feel included, like they belong, like they’re part of it, like the community that we serve is welcome. And this, to me, is one of the big questions and it is why I absolutely love the work that I do in smaller dollar donors.

23:34

Right, are we making philanthropy? Are we making giving accessible to everybody? Is everybody welcome at the table? Because if we are predominantly focused on wealthy donors, what we are saying is you’re not welcome, you’re not invited to be a part of this solution. We only want the wealthy people to be a part of it. That is a tough decision. It’s also tough because it’s more expensive, it takes more work, it takes more intentionality to involve your entire community in the work of fundraising. But that’s how movements start, that’s how change happens. So that tough, vulnerable conversation, and if we’re going to say, hey look, we believe that giving that being a part of this difference between everyone is welcome in this space versus, this space was created with you in mind, right, right, are we creating space in generosity that everyone can be a part of it? And if we are, then we have to build the systems that support it. We have to.

Julia Gackenbach Host 25:02

It is a tough, vulnerable that that must be asked all of those things are like such a gut check I’ve.

25:09

I just feel like, wow, I just want to sit with my thoughts on those things, you know there I know right, I know, I know I I was I served at an organization a while back that one of the people in the organization would say you know, is it worth my time to talk to the $10 a month donor?

25:31

What a heartbreaking question. And I think that there are a lot of people that have thought that maybe, maybe myself included that have thought, oh, my goodness, I don’t have time to talk to Mary Jane, who has one more question about where her $10 went. Like I already told you, you know, but it’s important to have space for those conversations, to have space for those people Like you’re saying. That really is a gut check for me, hopefully for our listeners to be able to say, yes, that $10 a month person is worth my time, because that person is valuable, their diversity and inclusion is valuable, as opposed to, you know, the donor that can maybe give a gift with multiple zeros, as opposed to you know, the donor that can maybe give a gift with multiple zeros. That’s not the only type of donor we need.

Clay Buck Guest 26:26

We need more than that and, honestly, sometimes those donors that give multiple types of zeros really just want to write a check and you know you don’t.

Julia Gackenbach Host 26:32

And get the tax break, or whatever their motivation may be.

Clay Buck Guest 26:38

But you know, I mean, let’s look at people where they are we might have five and six figure donors that they want to make the gift Once a year, that, just you know, want to check in, they want to see their impact report. And we got a $50 donor that that lover. She’s gonna send us an email every month. Yeah, okay, right, understand, understanding it is. This is hard work. Everybody is wearing multiple hats. We are all working too hard.

27:03

Burnout on fundraisers right now is at an all time high and also, and also at the same time that we are seeing declining rates of households giving to charities, we are seeing exponential increase in non-traditional giving methods, like mutual aid, giving societies, societies, crowdsourcing, all of these kinds of things, and what what people are saying is I’m giving directly to somebody because I’m getting more value from it than through a charity right. That, to me, is a big boy. That was a wake-up call to me of can we do better, of including and being included and really saying showing how your gift does make a difference and you are part of this mission, right?

Julia Gackenbach Host 27:51

And I think it’s important to note here. We’re not saying forget about the multiple zero donors Very important, we love them, it’s a yes, and they are incredibly important. The $10 a month incredibly important. The person coming to set up your event because they don’t have funds to give incredibly important. We can’t just focus on one part of, as you mentioned, the donor pyramid. We have to look at all parts.

Clay Buck Guest 28:26

I have worked with a number of organizations who have made the very strategic, very intentional decision that in this fundraising plan, we are going to focus on higher level donors, because that is the resources that we have, that’s the attention that we have, that’s the way our funding stream works and that is going to be the best management of our resources. And they are being very deliberate in saying everyone is welcome, we’re just focusing our efforts here, right, and we will build into the others. Your mission, well, okay, so let me, let me stop there and go. If this is because I think this is the other fundamental shift that goes to creating more inclusive, a more democratic, uh, philanthropic sector, is we have to stop looking at fundraising as the thing that funds the mission. But it is well, yes, it is. But if our job as as a non-profit, is to solve a mission, our job is to I’m just you know the the standard thing that I always use just my, my, my, my lovely joke example. Uh, non-profit is we’re going to rid the world of ravaging wombat, right?

29:38

nice and we have a charge from, well, we have a charge from the state and from the government, that’s who grants us this nonprofit status and gives us these benefits of being tax deductible, being able to raise money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

29:52

Right, that’s the role, which means that our job is our mission is for the community that we serve, right? If that’s the case, then when we are fundraising, we are inviting people to be a part of the mission, because we need the people in programs that are delivering the programs that are going out and capturing the wombats and releasing them to safe environments and all that. Right, we need the people that are delivering the programs. We need the people in the office that are managing the books and doing all the things, and we need the donors giving to make all of that happen. It’s all of us working together. So, when we’re inviting somebody to be a part of our mission through fundraising, through communication, through marketing, they are part of the mission. So fundraising is mission. It’s not this other thing that fuels mission. It is part of the work that we do. Our donors get to come in and be a part of it, versus your funding funding it, right yeah, there’s no reason to separate that there.

Julia Gackenbach Host 30:47

Yeah, it’s a. It’s very uh, as many non-profit things are just all tangled in there.

Clay Buck Guest 30:53

It is right right, which I think we have to um and I guess this is me, this is where I am at this stage of my career is how can we encourage and uplift fundraisers? Because I want to underscore. Data. Management isn’t easy. Not everybody’s used to it, not everybody knows it. It’s not easy and it’s one more thing on the plate to do. And here’s another guy telling me one more thing that I should do to raise more money and manage my data. You know it’s hard, I know I’m sorry. I want to encourage fundraisers that the work that we do is important and even when our leadership doesn’t see it and our board is saying, hey, did you hear about Melinda Gates? She started this new thing. Have you called her?

Julia Gackenbach Host 31:37

Yeah, why can’t you get on Oprah Winfrey? She’ll probably give you something. Yeah, why can’t you get on Oprah Winfrey? She’ll probably give you something.

Clay Buck Guest 31:44

Yeah, Wait. Harry and Meghan are giving tons of money away, aren’t they? Yeah Right.

31:54

We laugh because it’s true, these are real conversations happening and then we walk back to our office and grumble and grumble and grumble because, right, we don’t feel understood, we don’t feel heard, we don’t feel part of it. Feel understood, we don’t feel heard, we don’t feel part of it. I just want to encourage fundraisers that do what you can do and do it well. Add data to the mix and do it well, prioritize, but, above all, take care of you, because we need fundraisers. We do Absolutely More than ever, I think, as we tackle some real problems in the world and we, as fundraisers, we get to stand in that gap. Right, because we see these real world problems that need help and we see the people that can and want to help, and we get to stand in the middle and introduce the two. Isn’t that the best?

Julia Gackenbach Host 32:32

That is the best. I love that. That’s a great point, because there’s there. There are so many moments of anxiety for fundraisers I have to make this certain budget, I have to do this certain campaign, I have to, I have to, I have to. But there’s also this storyline of I get to, I get to introduce people to a mission, I get to affect change in my community, I get to be part of something bigger than myself, and sometimes it’s easy to forget about that part of fundraising.

Clay Buck Guest 33:01

And that’s the reason we go into fundraising is to effect change it is, and when your head is down in a database crunching to find you know your best, your cleanest, sending the file out for NCOA or pens or whatever it may be, it might not feel like the most glamorous thing in the world and it might be hard to do, but if we can approach it, knowing that that file that we’re looking at has value and it represents real people behind every name is a real caring, generous human who wants to be a part of our mission, we can frame that as we’re sitting there filtering databases and building pivot tables in Excel, right, perhaps, just maybe, we can start to value the people behind that data as much as we value the process itself.

Julia Gackenbach Host 33:44

I love that Great point. Well, there’s one other kind of section I want to chat with you about. Yes.

33:50

Sorry, no, this is great. This has been so good and such important conversation, valuable, uplifting conversation, and I’m sure that people, when they push play on this episode, expected numbers and data and all the things, but hopefully there’s major encouragement happening, which I really appreciate. I hope so, but I do want to talk. You have developed this roadmap when it comes to data and so I want to just kind of touch on it. We don’t have to go super, super deep into it, but let’s talk of 30,000 foot view when it comes to this roadmap that you’ve developed.

Clay Buck Guest 34:26

And I wouldn’t say developed, I would say assembled. My friend collaborator, dear, dear, dear, dear smart person who I work with a lot and who keeps me honest and on track, lindsay McPherquarrie and I um put that together, um, as part of a conversation in a series that we did called don’t just slap a flag on it and call it inclusive, right, what is the work of inclusivity? And it basically goes through those same points, those. These are not unique to us, we just assembled them into one space, but it goes through. It lists all of those things. Right, give donors the choice to choose the honorific Do they want Mr and Mrs or do they want Jack and Diane?

35:09

Make sure you’re capturing spelling correctly. Make sure you’re capturing names correctly. Be intentional about how you’re managing and approaching all data so that we’re using it in a way that reflects back to the donor who they are and what they’ve told us. So it’s some basic points of things that you can do at a very simple, direct level, right, because we often find ourselves going okay, but what do I do? Right, I understand the concept, but what do I do? So this roadmap is intended to be? Here’s a few points. Tackle one of them, right, tackle one bullet point and you will have taken one more step to creating just a slightly more inclusive data practice.

Julia Gackenbach Host 35:44

That’s great. Well, as we wrap up, what do you think if people were to leave listening to this? Walk into their office today and maybe they feel there’s more opportunity to be inclusive in their organization? Maybe they’re not the leader of their organization. Maybe they are Whatever position they are in the organization of their organization. Maybe they are whatever position they are in the organization. Is there any advice that you have for them as they pursue inclusivity, maybe in a space that it hasn’t been pursued before?

Clay Buck Guest 36:16

um lead from where you are having. The tough conversations can be tough, but I promise, I promise you, I promise you you don’t want to look back and go boy, I should have said more right, I should have done more, I could have done more Right. So, regardless of what position we’re in in an organization, step into the leadership that you possess in the, in the knowledge and the confidence of your belief and your approach. Have the fact behind you to support it, but be that champion. And even if you can just do one thing, one little thing right to move that needle of inclusivity forward, do it. Do that thing.

Julia Gackenbach Host 36:59

Great and we can. We have so many opportunities to be inclusive and kind to our constituents. Like you said, it’s everybody that is interacting with our organizations and as fundraisers, again, we get to be part of those conversations and we get to affect change, whether it’s with our communities or with individuals. It’s a great opportunity. Well, thank you so much, clay. This has been really wonderful and I’m hopeful that people. Thank you, Julie.

37:30

Yeah, good one, good one. I hope that people feel encouraged and that people are able to leave knowing that they have an opportunity when it comes to their data. And it’s the donor telling us a story and they’ve trusted us with that story and now we get to be equitable with that story.

Clay Buck Guest 37:52

You and I am of course teasing Julia, I didn’t make you know, let’s laugh at things too. I do think that humor and fun are a core value.

38:02

So let’s, let’s continue to have fun with things, but you you make a very good point, which I think is is is a really good note to end on it’s trust. It’s trust right. The the word stewardship means to take care of something that is entrusted to you. When donors make their gifts to us, they are trusting us to do what we said we would do. They were trusting us to fulfill the mission. When they give us their data, they are trusting us to take care of it, right.

Julia Gackenbach Host 38:31

And what an opportunity. That’s a heavy calling, but a wonderful calling.

Clay Buck Guest 38:38

Yeah, yeah indeed.

Julia Gackenbach Host 38:40

Well, thank you so much, Clay. I really appreciate you. It’s been a great conversation and, yeah, thanks for being here.

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