Nonprofit Expert Episode 27 – Navigating Organizational Culture as a Nonprofit Development Leader

Ad Welcome to Nonprofit Expert, presented by DonorPerfect.

Robbe Healey
Welcome. I’m so glad to have you join us today. I’m Robbe Healey, and you’re listening to Nonprofit Expert presented by DonorPerfect. And today, we’re continuing our series of respect, Read More

Ad Welcome to Nonprofit Expert, presented by DonorPerfect.

Robbe Healey
Welcome. I’m so glad to have you join us today. I’m Robbe Healey, and you’re listening to Nonprofit Expert presented by DonorPerfect. And today, we’re continuing our series of respect, relationships, and resources. And I’m thrilled to have a very accomplished professional and personal friend, Michelle Gallipoli, joining us today. And before we get started, I’d love to have Michelle introduce herself to you and give you a little bit about her very interesting experience and background. So, Michelle, welcome. It’s so good to be with you today.

Michelle Gollapalli

It’s great to be here, Robbie. Thank you for having me. Well you wanted a little bit about my professional career, well I am so proud to have been serving the non profit community for the last twenty five years. I have worked with a wide variety of nonprofit missions from public broadcasting to youth to education to, diseases like Alzheimer’s and most recently in health care. But right now I’m honored to be leading the fundraising effort for a global nonprofit that works on alleviating poverty in Latin America and the Caribbean.

Robbe Healey

Well, I think, like a lot of us, you’ve had several different positions during your career. I think for me personally, I have to feel a calling to the work we do, and I know from following all your social media posts, you are in the right place at the right time with the people you’re helping and supporting. So it’s exciting to follow your career path.

Michelle Gollapalli

Thank you. Thank you. You know, there are some times when you look at a position and you don’t quite know where it’s going to lead, but once you start to work with the organization, you know that you are exactly in the right place and this is exactly where you’re meant to be and that is quite honestly the way I feel where I am right

Robbe Healey

now. Well and you’ve already touched on this idea of relationships

Michelle Gollapalli

Yes.

Robbe Healey

And having a relationship with the mission of the organization.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

I think that relationships are at the heart of successful philanthropy, period.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

But I also think the stereotype in development is that people like you and I have relationships with the donors or the prospects. Mhmm. But I think you agree it goes far beyond that because you have to have a relationship with the work, the mission.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

And you don’t do it by yourself. No. You work with professional colleagues Mhmm. Line staff, board members, executives Mhmm. A whole array of people. So I think of relationship as far beyond simply the work we do to connect well with donors. And I’d love to have you share some of your thoughts about how those relationships evolve in a new position in an organization that’s in a life stage change perhaps.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm. Well I think it really begins with three core values and for me those are honesty, integrity, and communication. And I think once your own values are aligned with the values of an organization, that’s when the magic starts to happen. Because you’re going into it with an approach that this is completely aligned to who I am as a person, so you show up authentically not just as a person but as a professional, And I think that says a lot in how you start to build relationships with others, and I agree with you completely. There’s, you know, a, a sense of fundraisers only work with donors. But no. I think that even before we get to the donors, the relationships within the organization are so key. Whether it’s you mentioned the board. I think they’re a key factor being the volunteer leadership of an organization and setting the course to guide the organization for the future. And then the senior level management of the organization, you’ve got to have relationships with them. And not to say that the frontline staff are, you know, not really important. They are so key because they’re the ones that are most often implementing the mission of the organization. So it doesn’t matter whether the stakeholders are internal or external. It could be the vendors and suppliers of the organization. Those relationships are important too. And but I think it start it needs to start from the inside and move out. So when you finally get to the donors, you’re getting to the donors with a great knowledge of what the organization’s culture is, what the organization stands for, where the organization is going strategically, and to be able to articulate that to the donor. But no good fundraising effort is ever done in a void or by one single person. It’s and it’s not just really the fundraising team. It’s working cross collaboratively across all of the departments in the organization, whether it’s finance, whether it’s marketing, it’s programs and services that really truly makes the mission move forward. I’ve

Robbe Healey

thought of at least a hundred questions while you were speaking to that, and I think I I kept harking back to the work of the Haas Foundation in California with their underdeveloped report and fundraising bright spots. Underdeveloped, of course, being organizations higher development officer. They tell them this is what we are. This is where we are. This is what we’re gonna do with you. You get into the role, and it’s not true. Yeah. They’re they want to be there Mhmm. But they’re not. Mhmm. So the honesty piece that you were talking about, in your experience, do they realize they’re not there yet, or do they really think they can hide that when you get there and and somehow you’ll make magic happen?

Michelle Gollapalli

Well I’ve definitely been in places like that. I think we’ve been there. Yes. Where you hire a development officer and you think that, alright, the next day, they’re going to start bringing in the big box.

Robbe Healey

But No. Seven figures.

Michelle Gollapalli

Seven figures.

Robbe Healey

By the end of day one.

Michelle Gollapalli

By the end of day one, at least, right, if you’re a good fundraiser. But you and I both know that there’s so much more to it than that. And, yes, the honesty piece is critical. But then again, when you go in and you find something different from the reality that was shared with you, you quickly understand that that was a perception. It really wasn’t reality. So it’s it’s a matter of how much an organization is willing to accept where they are and also accept the work that needs to be done to get where they need to be. So it’s it’s a matter of trust, not just hiring a development professional, but being willing to trust in them as subject matter experts to know that they truly know what they’re doing and where they’re going. And so we’ve got to, stand aside and let them do what they need to do, but also we need to be able to support them in whether it’s building a development department, whether it’s educating other departments about what development truly is, and the timeline is one of those. Right? So no big gift ever comes overnight. It’s a matter of being on that journey with the donor for those gifts to happen. So I think it’s not just being able to be honest with a development person, it’s being able to walk the talk in supporting them through what those goals and objectives need to be for development, but also, development being a function of helping advance that mission.

Robbe Healey

Well and you’ve touched on the other two topics of this series, respect for the position and the work Mhmm. And resources to make sure the development office has the bandwidth it needs to achieve the goals you’re challenging them with. True. Do you have a a and maybe this is the really wrong question. But in your experience, is there kind of a sign, a bellwether within the first few months of they’re not where they thought they were, but Mhmm. I can help them get there if I navigate something. Are there road signs you’ve seen that you think are common or maybe uncommon but important?

Michelle Gollapalli

Well, yes. Plenty of them. Right? There’s red flags and there’s green flags and very quickly you learn to see what they are and you get to prioritize where they are in in how they’re going to be an obstacle or they’re going to be something that will propel the development effort forward. So in in the first three months, I think, it’s just really good to sit back and absorb and do a lot of listening because cross departmental opinions and ideas and thoughts that are shared with you very quickly will tell you, give you a pulse of where the organization is, both in terms of their own department objectives, but also in terms of their perceptions of development and fundraising, and where they think it should be and where they believe it is. And the greater the dissonance between that reality and perception, the sooner you’ll get an idea of where that potential lies. And as a positive person, you know, I have done the CliftonStrengths, and positivity is my number one. I tend to always not look at a glass half full or half empty, but to be grateful that we have a glass at all. So

Robbe Healey

Oh I like that one. So

Michelle Gollapalli

I like that one. So

Robbe Healey

because I tend to think of myself as a terminal optimist where the glass is overflowing. Okay. But I there are a lot of places that have no glass. Yeah.

Michelle Gollapalli

So you’ve got to be, you know, approach it with a sense of gratitude that there is a glass at all and then go from there to see okay we’re here and this is how the organization’s doing and it’s not just quantitative data right it’s not just about the revenues it’s about trying to gauge and see where the organization is with how well they know their donors And that’s a very telling flag. Red or green, very quickly you’ll know how much the organization knows their own donors will let you know how much they’ve actually tapped into their potential to fundraise.

Robbe Healey

So if you come into a red flag zone

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

What are some of the first steps you take to try to get it to at least yellow?

Michelle Gollapalli

I think first you’ve got to get an assessment of where where the organization truly is.

Robbe Healey

One that you do or one that you would cause someone else to do from an external perspective?

Michelle Gollapalli

I think it has to be a little bit of both. As a development person coming into the position, I think you’ve got to understand the organization for what it is yourself before you can articulate it either to the board, to the executive management, or even to an external person coming in to do. You’ve got to have a baseline.

Robbe Healey

So what things would you want to assess?

Michelle Gollapalli

You’d want to assess revenue for sure, a trending revenue, how they’ve been doing for the last five or ten years, take away all of the outlier environmental, you know, situations or large transformational gifts that have skewed, in any particular year. And then I think you also have to take a look at donor engagement. And not just donor engagement with the with the fundraising staff but donor engagement with the senior executives.

Robbe Healey

You mean they have a role in working with the development officer with donors?

Michelle Gollapalli

They absolutely do. I know. Right? It’s the great myth, but it’s the truth. I think being able to see a donor engagement with not just the head fundraiser, but with other executives on the team, I think that makes a big difference. So you know that the donor is not just be in a transactional relationship with the organization, but a true meaningful relationship, one that’s meaningful to the donor in order for us to start to build those sustainability factors with them.

Robbe Healey

Well and I don’t know about you, but I’ve found that boards are shocked when they hire an experienced development professional and you begin to talk about the c suite staff or the senior managers

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

And you want them to put time in their position descriptions

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

To engage with external constituencies. None of them are ever reticent to have folks interact with elected officials that control the public funding revenue streams.

Michelle Gollapalli

Right.

Robbe Healey

But these rich folks, why do we need time for them to engage with that? And I think that’s what you’re talking about and of course that’s part of that evolution of their thinking.

Michelle Gollapalli

Yes. And you mentioned the word respect too. And I think this comes down to that not just respect for the development professional but respect for the donor especially if the donor has been giving to the organization for a while and we hardly know anything about them then we do need to invest in that time because we need to respect the donors’ need to meet their own philanthropic objectives.

Robbe Healey

So what are some of the tactics you found successful in helping chip away at that resistance? If you if I’m your CFO, your chief marketing officer, and you want me to spend time with a handful of people you know I could be effective with Mhmm. What are the things you might try to entice me to get excited about?

Michelle Gollapalli

I think education and awareness, right? So taking a look at so if we’re talking to Donor A, taking a look at their donor profile and saying all right this donor has been with the organization for a long time now and looking at the trend in giving with the donor even if it’s to make that basic point that the longer the donor stays and the more we’re communicating with the donor the more they’re likely to give and become engaged in the organization. And then also to actually make give the CFO or the CEO opportunities to interact with the donor.

Robbe Healey

And how would you set those up? I mean right now you’re working with a global organization. So you it’s not like when I started my career with the Girl Scouts Mhmm. We had wonderful things in the summer at camp.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

Because everyone who gave to the Girl Scouts probably went to camp.

Michelle Gollapalli

Yeah.

Robbe Healey

So we did our donor cultivation events there.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

And they loved it. They would come. They would meet the children and have lunch in the dining hall, all the things. But that was easy because everyone was so close. Mhmm. But how do you do it when you’re not close? Or perhaps you don’t even have a space where they can come.

Michelle Gollapalli

Well, the the key point to what you just shared was having the the person interact with the mission in a meaningful way. What we do is gather donors together and take them out to the field. So we have trips that go out to Honduras, to Guatemala, to El Salvador, and our donors come on that trip with us. We have some executives on the trip. We have program man project managers and program managers that also accompany the donors and there’s nothing as powerful as having a donor in front of the people, that they’ve just provided housing for or in in a village where they’ve just put in, they’ve just paid to have a new water well in the village, or a new school. There’s nothing like having a donor stand on the playground of a school that they’ve built and be surrounded with children. That’s really the mission speaking for itself.

Robbe Healey

Well and you haven’t spent your entire career with children. No. Children are always stereotyped as easy because it’s so compelling. You mentioned Alzheimer’s disease. You mentioned working with elders.

Michelle Gollapalli

How do

Robbe Healey

you do it there?

Michelle Gollapalli

Again it’s it’s interacting, creating meaningful opportunities to interact with the mission. With the Alzheimer’s Association we would have the donors come in for the caregiver programs that they supported and talk to the caregivers of individuals with Alzheimer’s. What is that journey like? How are they walking with their loved one on that journey? And more importantly, weaving into the conversation how the program that the donors supported has made a difference in the life of the caregiver and in the life of the person with Alzheimer’s.

Robbe Healey

In in all of these examples you’re talking about outcomes. You’re not talking about how we do the work. Oh. You’re talking about the work that gets done.

Michelle Gollapalli

Right. But in showing the outcomes, that leads to an organic conversation about what else can be done, showing them the potential, showing them the need, because donors thrive on impact. And so once you’re able to truly and powerfully share that impact, then the following conversation is let’s take a look at what else needs to be done. And if a donor’s already bought into that impact, then the need, the greater need then becomes a good segue into how their next gift could possibly help or how collectively they can continue to make that difference that now they find so meaningful. And and I I’ve also found that that can be one of those stumbling blocks for the program staff who haven’t yet experienced a donor getting excited about outcomes. They want to talk about their academic qualifications, their philosophy of whatever the changes they’re creating Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

On a very granular level rather than

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

Rejoicing in the outcomes they created. And then I don’t know about you, but my experience has also been once they see the outcomes Yeah. Then they’re actually curious about how the work happened.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

But if you start with how the work happened, it’s not nearly as compelling and successful. True.

Michelle Gollapalli

True but I I think you know we we talked about internal relationships. I think those internal relationships built with program staff could be all important in even creating that compelling case for support for the donor.

Robbe Healey

So you’re talking about many steps you take dependent on the situation you find Mhmm. The awareness of the people. Sequence that out. You’re not gonna have direct access to direct line staff

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

Until whoever controls their schedules gives you that access. Mhmm. You’re not gonna have the ability to talk to those folks until whoever the c suite executive is who decides whether you have access.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

How do you how do you sequence that? How much time could, should, might that take? Do you once the relationships are established, how do you keep that going? What are some of your insights into the back office piece that looks so smooth once it’s working well?

Michelle Gollapalli

We know it’s not. Right? It’s like a duck on the surface and paddling frantically below. Well, I think it really has to start at, the leadership of the organization because that’s where it all trickles down from. Right? But the leadership truly sets the tone of the organization. What I felt, worked really well for me is to be able to create those peer relationships first and to be able to share with my peers the importance of what film, philanthropic investment can do. So, yes, CFOs are some of the more challenging individuals because, you know, you’re you’re just looking at the numbers. You’re looking at the balance sheet, and it can be very quantitative almost. But I found what’s been helpful is to be able to tell those stories, to build that trust with my own peer group and then have that cascade down to, alright, what can we do to help support you? How can we so having clear roles defined within the organization is helpful. But if it’s not, to try to talk about where that collaboration can truly make an impact within the organization’s different departments.

Robbe Healey

Yeah. I’m thinking of examples where you find a line staff member who the words that come out of their mouth are just magic.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

And if you can just happen to be in the same place with that individual when you’ve got a donor with you

Michelle Gollapalli

Yes. That makes all

Robbe Healey

of a difference. Sure.

Michelle Gollapalli

Yeah. Sure. And especially, like, we we talked about the Alzheimer’s Association. We talked about, with seniors you know having those program coordinators be the ones that tell the stories to the donors about what’s truly happening in the organization.

Robbe Healey

It’s not because you can’t. No. It’s because they’re so much more

Michelle Gollapalli

They’re closer to the implementation of the mission than you are. Well, and I think it’s also it’s so much more emotional.

Robbe Healey

And I think that visceral passion that comes out of a caregiver

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

Who really does love the people they’re working with. True. Yes. It there’s nothing like that.

Michelle Gollapalli

Quite true. And they’re the ones that know the individuals, so they’re not talking statistics. They’re not saying one in four people. They’re talking about Anne and Sally and Bob, and that’s what makes a difference.

Robbe Healey

Yeah. It certainly does. I’m I’ve got pictures in my mind of people who I’m thinking about who are really good at that. Mhmm. You also touched on boundaries, perhaps not intentionally, but Mhmm. I think that’s always a concern with developing really good relationships because we both agree transactional fundraising, it often starts there. You don’t stop that because you have to keep developing your pipeline of new interested persons. Mhmm.

Michelle Gollapalli

But if

Robbe Healey

you get stalled there, it’s never as effective. So those mid level gifts, those Mhmm. Transformational gifts, how do you make sure you stay on the professional side of the relationship? Because we wouldn’t know and be friends with these people. We’re not in their professional circle, their social circle. We know them. We have the privilege of knowing them because they support our work. So how do you man how do you navigate that? How do you manage that?

Michelle Gollapalli

There are two things that I always keep top of mind. The first is to know that you are the spokesperson for the organization. You represent a mission. It’s not just an individual to an individual connection. It’s a professional connection. And my second point, Robbie, is that it’s important for the donor to know not just the development professional, but others in the organization. And that sort of brings that relationship to where it needs to be with the organization rather than with just one individual.

Robbe Healey

Well and I think there’s there are selfish reasons for the organization to support that as well. Mhmm. Because even if you’re with an organization your whole career Mhmm. Which is unusual, but it does happen Yeah. What happens when you’re gone? Right. The relationship isn’t with you

Michelle Gollapalli

Yeah.

Robbe Healey

As you’ve pointed out, it’s with the organization, and that’s huge.

Michelle Gollapalli

That is and I think that’s really the key to keeping those relationships stay professional. And you know we we’ve both mentored a lot of fundraisers and as young fundraisers coming up and being introduced to this whole new world of relationship building, it’s so easy to say well can I call the donor for my son’s birthday party because they’ve been so kind and they’ve been so good? It’s clearly setting that and saying no this is a professional relationship.

Robbe Healey

Well I think sometimes they’re those things where and I can remember an occasion one one of my positions where the family of the board member I had worked with so closely Mhmm. Was celebrating her ninetieth birthday Mhmm. And wanted me to be there.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

And so I talked with the board chair. I talked with the executive director, and I said, I don’t feel comfortable accepting this or not accepting this without a conversation.

Michelle Gollapalli

Sure.

Robbe Healey

And they both agreed that I should go to that.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

But it was transparent Yes. And clear. Yeah. And even when you’re at the party you’re still maintaining a very professional boundary.

Michelle Gollapalli

Because you’ve got to know that when anyone looks at you they’re looking at the organization through you so that I think is a tremendous responsibility to for you to always put yourself in the best professional light possible because there there’s a whole mission behind you that they are clearly going to assess your behavior by. They sure will. Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

So good advice. Thinking back twenty five years ago Mhmm. What’s the best advice Michelle ever got and perhaps advice she wished she’d never gotten?

Michelle Gollapalli

Oh, boy. I think I’ll start with the first. The the best advice I got was to put together really good detailed contact reports. So when you are with a donor and you’re listening to all the details, the details a donor shares with you clearly matter to them. So the more you remember it and the more you’re able to archive it for future reference, that is what goes miles in making your relationship with the donor so much more secure. It’s so important when you call the donor to ask them about their children or grandchildren or even pets by their name, You know to remember what’s important to the donor when you’re taking them out to dinner for instance, any particular allergies and all of that is done if you’re listening, you care about the donor, you care about the relationship enough to truly document what’s meaningful to them.

Robbe Healey

Do they ever tell you things you choose not to record?

Michelle Gollapalli

Sometimes yes. So if the donor expresses something in confidence then I will not record that because as you know being five zero one c3s and the donor can come and ask for any information that you have on them and you’ve got to be willing to share that And so if it’s highly confidential then I won’t, but I will ask the donor depending on the sensitivity to the of the information if I could share it with at least one other person in the organization. So that way the history not just lies with me but with someone else. So to your point of when it is you move on from an organization that important fact is not lost.

Robbe Healey

I think sometimes that shocks board members especially that we that donors expect us to remember these things about them.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm.

Robbe Healey

It’s not a violation of their privacy, it’s an ethical duty.

Michelle Gollapalli

Mhmm. It certainly is. So what’s the worst advice you ever got? Oh boy. I guess the worst advice that I’ve gotten is it had to do with I think with grant writing. It’s a one size fits all kind of thing.

Robbe Healey

Okay well it’s not.

Michelle Gollapalli

Yeah well you and I know that, you and I know that so very early on in my career, and I’m glad I learned this early on, I would write this one grant template and just change the name of the foundation

Robbe Healey

And send it to everybody.

Michelle Gollapalli

And send it out to everybody and that didn’t do too well for me, so very quickly I learned that if you know one foundation, you know one foundation, and so the ability to tailor and this serves you with any donor that you work with, right, the ability to tailor your ask to the donor’s interests rather than to the organization’s interests, that’s what’s so important.

Robbe Healey

I think that’s more widely believed than it used to be. Mhmm. But it’s still not universally treasured that even institutions are run by people. Right. So Yeah. Relationships relate it’s like real estate, location, location, location. Yeah. Fundraising, relationships, relationships, relationships. Right. And you’ve touched on all three of of the key points. You have to have respect for the function Mhmm. The people, the

Michelle Gollapalli

work. Yes.

Robbe Healey

You have to have the resources to do it well and invest in the relationships that will sustain the work so that you can be the change you want to be. And I I also think we have to remember they are not our donors, we are their charity.

Michelle Gollapalli

Exactly. Exactly. And I think, the prime directive is to be their favorite charity and the only way you get from being somewhere down in the top ten to being their favorite charity is through good solid relationships.

Robbe Healey

And on that note, thanks, Michelle. This has been just delightful. I really appreciate your insights, your professional experience, and taking time to be with us today. Thank you, Robbie. So you’ve been listening to Nonprofit Expert presented by DonorPerfect in our series Respect, Relationships, and Resources. And we hope you enjoyed this lovely conversation with Michelle Gollapalli.

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